tough week for space shops

NUKE ROCKY44 · Senior Member

tough week for space shops

GoogleNaut · Guru

Yeah, no kidding! I support NASA's 12 hour "Bottle-to-Thottle" policy. I would even say that for flight crew, personel directly responsible for the ascent and possible abort secnarios of the shuttle, should not consume alcohol 24 hours in advance of a schenduled launch.

Things happen so fast that anything impeding astronauts reactions ought to be restricted.

However, in the case of Soyuz, most US astronauts are not among the primary flight vrew, and for the moszt part, those cosmonauts are merely 'along for the ride.' I can see perhaps a little leeway here, but with the Shuttle--no. That is a dynamic machine that deserves all the attention it gets--one little mistake can lead to tragedy, or conversly, in the event of an abort, the pilots full faculties must be available at an instants notice...

Now I am human, I know astronauts are going to want to 'whoop' it up a bit. And I suport that--they've earned that right. Just do it responsibly like every other responsible citizen. Let's try not to fly with an 0.08% breathalyzer blow, hmmm?

As far as the sabotage goes, I have to redline the bourd and say "WTF?!!!" What the heck is going on here? I can see accidental damage due to a careless nudge on a workbench; I can see a connector accidently be soldered wrong; I can even see a programmer working too many hours might miss something. But deliberate sabotage! That is incredible and boarders on the unbelievable.

Surely this is not the result of some goofy terroist plot, I hope not!

And as far as what happened at Scaled Composites--my deepest condolences go to the families of the crews who were lost or injured. Space exploration is a very risky affair, and anytime anyone is hurt or lost the cost is high--but the general direction of the effort makes it worth while.

Even for a commercial enterprise, the loss of life shall not be in vain.

-- Edited by GoogleNaut at 01:48, 2007-07-28

NUKE ROCKY44 · Senior Member

Now I am human, I know astronauts are going to want to 'whoop' it up a bit. And I support that--they've earned that right. Just do it responsibly like every other responsible citizen. Let's try not to fly with an 0.08% Breathalyzer blow, hmmm?

I'll agree with you there. I think there should be a bit of Grog for crews such as
long Lunar, Mars missions or on Lunar or Mars surface stations and ISS etc. But critical mission system ops or manoeuvres need to be done with crystal clear mental clarity to perform safely.

The spaceship2 mishap just sad...hope they can recover. It's a hard business in particular for family of those killed. From the looks of the still photos it must have been a big blast I imagine they used the nitrous oxide fuel. Wonder what safety procedures were in place at SC?

The desert is an awful dry and static charge prone place.

Historically, I think project NERVA had its troubles in the desert too.

It sure could not have come at a worse time 'cause I think Northrup Grumman is suppose to buy out SC.

Andrew · Senior Member

However, in the case of Soyuz, most US astronauts are not among the primary flight vrew, and for the moszt part, those cosmonauts are merely 'along for the ride.' I can see perhaps a little leeway here, but with the Shuttle--no. That is a dynamic machine that deserves all the attention it gets--one little mistake can lead to tragedy, or conversly, in the event of an abort, the pilots full faculties must be available at an instants notice...

How about drinking for those that are not doing anything while on-board the Shuttle?

GoogleNaut · Guru

Everyone that goes up whether primary flight crew or only mission support crew, or even tourist, will have a responsibility to be able to perform necessary functions in the event of a launch abort scenario, especially where a bail out is necessary, and where rescue of other crew and survival is needed. Thus, again, I don't have a problem with preflight alcohol consumption as long as it is done responsibly. Astronauts are a professional creed--as with any professional organization there are consequences for those that break the rules. If someone has drunk within the 'blackout period' and still has measurable alcohol in their blood stream they should be booted from the flight and the backup person brought it. Flying is a priveledge, not a right!

On Scaled Composites--the Northrop deal is done. They own 100% of SC now.

As far as the N2O tank explosion goes--not really sure what went wrong. N2O (nitrous oxide) is the oxidizer, and they were performing some kind fo pressurization and fluid flow testing, probably testing the N2O injectors of the engine. So my guess is that this accident may have been what is known as a 'flameless vapor explosion." If a bulkhead on one of the tanks let go, the liquid would be almost instantly pushed out and would violently flash to vapor. Death would probably be by flying debris kicked up by the blast (blunt force trauma), blast concussion and unconsciousness, followed by asphyxiation as the oxygen was displaced by nitrous oxide. Not a very pleasent way to go...

Rocket science is a dangerous business. And unfortunately, not all the variables can be accounted for and this is why testing is done, over and over again. Sometimes, something completely unforseen happens, and sometimes there just isn't anything that could have been done to prevent it. I will pbe paying close attention to the investigation findings. And I hope SC doesn't throw in the towel--they've come too far to give up now!

-- Edited by GoogleNaut at 18:18, 2007-07-28

NUKE ROCKY44 · Senior Member

On Spaceship2 SC accident, N. Grumman will drop the commercial space Spaceship2 aspect. My take is that these aerospace shops work under tight budgets and are too tied to 'Mad Mil Money' in UAV (recon, hunter-killer, air-to-air combat) especially to compete with cost effective UAV 'sat killer'. A commercial space vehicle for passengers with Virgin will be put-off, to many legal issues still to be worked out until then N. Grumman will work the SC Div to ensure adequate income.

Andrew · Senior Member

Everyone that goes up whether primary flight crew or only mission support crew, or even tourist, will have a responsibility to be able to perform necessary functions in the event of a launch abort scenario, especially where a bail out is necessary, and where rescue of other crew and survival is needed. Thus, again, I don't have a problem with preflight alcohol consumption as long as it is done responsibly. Astronauts are a professional creed--as with any professional organization there are consequences for those that break the rules. If someone has drunk within the 'blackout period' and still has measurable alcohol in their blood stream they should be booted from the flight and the backup person brought it. Flying is a priveledge, not a right!

In that case, then neither should the Soyouz crew should drink (alcohol). The Soyouz is safer, yes, due to it being simpler, but it is not THAT much safer.

As for the explosion with Scaled Composites: My condolences to the family, friends and loved ones of the lost. They did what they loved doing though, and they knew something like this could happen. We are talking about rocket fuel.

10kBq Jaro · Senior Member

GoogleNaut wrote:
If someone has drunk within the 'blackout period' and still has measurable alcohol in their blood stream they should be booted from the flight and the backup person brought it. Flying is a priveledge, not a right!

True, but I suspect that in this case NASA may not have had much choice, if that astronaut was in fact a cosmonaut.
Booting him off the shuttle may have international political repercussions.

NUKE ROCKY44 · Senior Member

Jackie and Dunlop on drunks in space!

YouTube video link

-- Edited by NUKE ROCKY44 at 05:06, 2007-07-31