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Post Info TOPIC: Carl Sagan Opposed to Orion Atomic Powered Rocket


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Carl Sagan Opposed to Orion Atomic Powered Rocket


The late astronomer Carl Sagan who was a jailed anti-nuclear protestor proposed in his book "Cosmos" that a great way of eliminating atomic weapons would be to use them to propel the Orion atomic powered rocket.  Yet in 1993 during a Senate subcomitee meeting he recanted that statement and said that project Orion would not be feasible because atomic explosions would contaminate Earth so detononations could only occur far away from Earth and that Orion would not be needed because atomic weapons could simply be dismantled.

But can an atomic weapon really be disposed of simply by dismantling it ?  Maybe not.  Yes the bomb can be dismantled but you still have weapons proliferation issues in that the weapons grade atomic fuel is left over and must be guarded for eternity.  And how difficult would it be to reassemble the atomic bombs?  The inconvenient truth for the environmentalists and peace activists may be that the only permanent way to truly get rid of an atomic bomb is to explode it as far away from Earth as possible.  For this task Project Orion is up to the job.

As obscene and insane as Project Orion seems to be it is infinitely less obscene than it is to allow rouge states such as India and Pakistan to anihilate each other with atomic weapons. 

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This is where we have to 'grow up' as a technological species. To use the energy stored in the fissile isotopes of uranium and plutonium, extracted from nuclear weapons, is an infinitely wiser, nobler, and better use of the materials than simply dumping them into a secure nuclear waste dump.

Nuclear Pulse Orion may not be the only or most desirable way to go: there are other uses for the isotopes. NTR's or even Andrews Aerospace proposal of a MiniMag Orion which uses a Z-pinch mechanism to electromagnetically implode small fissile targets to create small nuclear explosions on the order of 200 GJ to 1 TJ.

We have to behave like a 'grown up species' and move beyond war.

I know that sounds awfully naive, but there you have it.

To quote a line from Orson Scott Card's novelization of the movie The Abyss: "...it's time for us to put away childish things..."

I can't think of a better one liner than that.


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I thought the Uranium or Plutonium contained in nuclear bombs could be diluted into fuel to be used in nuclear power plants. Is that not true?

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Yes... U & Pu can be recycled for N-plant reactor fuel use.

One immediate reason to use PNE (Peaceful Nuclear Explosion) device is to shutdown deep undersea BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico ASAP. Here is the risk metric:
300+ Valdez oil spills in Gulf of Mex. & Atlantic ocean -vs- Shutdown of arrant undersea oil/gas well ASAP.
Both the U.S. and Russia have plenty of data on use it's >90% effective to shutdown bad wells. Post blast radioactivity is none to minuscule amount.

Read the science to make intelligent choice.

I will post article shortly on this site to explain PNE device use and the politics/legal issues involved.

Some examples of peaceful use:

-Project Orion (space propulsion)
-emergency shutdown of arrant oil/gas wells underground+underwater.
-NEO impact prevention
-NTR/NEP (space propulsion)
 


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Bruce Behrhorst


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Nuclear weapons can indeed be recycled into nuclear fuel but you are still using weapons grade plutonium as your fuel and this fuel may take a long time to burn up. So in essence you are still maintaining your nuclear war capability with only minor hurdles such as extracting the weapons grade fuel from the power plant and reassembling the nuclear bombs. With the Orion atomic rocket all the nuclear weapons are destroyed permanently and if a rouge country wanted to rearm they would have to do everything from scratch starting with the mining of uranium and the construction of centrifuges.

Also one has to remember that rouge states like Nazi Germany always glorify war and will destroy everyone in their path to accomplish victory. However even Werner Von Braun realized that space travel is far more glorious than war and always regretted that the V2 rocket was used to destroy. The Orion atomic rocket operating under close international supervision gives any country willing to give up all of their nuclear weapons the capability for a manned Mars mission which is a glorious alternative to war.

Of course don't expect the environmentalists to embrace Project Orion. Even if the Orion atomic rocket were to run off of Helium 3 atomic explosives for an Earth based launch we would still see massive protests and such a rocket would be declared both obscene and insane. Thus Orion will never become politically viable as even its inventors have turned their back on the project. Orion only lives on in the wars of ideas and is only showcased perhaps in science fiction films. Yet Orion is subject to massive censorship even in science fiction films. Stanley Kubrick eliminated the Orion drive in the movie 2001 even though Arthur C. Clarke admitted that the space age could never begin without a technology like Orion. I think the only way around Hollywood censorship is to create a science fiction movie which is based on robotics rather than space travel but could include space travel in some of its episodes.


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Nuclear bombs are very powerful and I agree that they could be used for great purposes, not the least space propulsion.  A determined state could probably follow such projects as you mention and still avoid the dangerous material to fall into malevolent hands. Probably the obstacle is pure politics...



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Politics? All I am asking is that these ideas should be allowed to be debated in the court of public opinion. Instead we have censorship so the public remains ignorant. The movie 2001 was based on a true story which was really about the Orion atomic rocket making a voyage to Saturn. Yet Staney Kubrick decided to elimate the Orion atomic drive because he was embarassed about a possible Dr. Strangelove connection. However Kubrick also eliminated the only possible means to get to Saturn. Carl Sagan was an adviser for the movie 2001 and suggested that an Orion atomic rocket would be a wonderfull way to get rid of atomic weapons yet later he recanted possibly due to his embarassment of his marijuana use.

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NS had as guest interview w/ Dr. Milo Nordyke retired Lawrence Livermore Lab Physicist. In the 1970s worked in the Plowshare Program and filed patent for, Nuclear Explosive Method for Stimulating Hydrocarbon. [LINK HERE]

 



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Bruce Behrhorst


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Unfortunately the environmentalists who control this country would rather have 333 Valdez oil spills then even think about the possibilility of setting off a small nuke that would end this disaster. Interestingly the environmentalists who love calling our nuclear engineers insane Dr. Strangeloves are also vehemenently opposed to all robotic technology and consider that this technology is inspired by the mad visions of Dr. Frakenstein. Ignoring the fact that a human diver would be crushed if he had to work at depths of 5000 feet and that only robotic submarines can handle these pressures the environmentalists use emotional arguments such as quoting the movie "Terminator" as ultimate proof that someday these evil robots will take over the world if the nuclear power plants don't get us first.

I think it is high time we stop drinking the kool aid that the environmentalists give us if we want to avoid the suicide of letting millions die from an asteroid impact in order to continue the protest of all things nuclear.

And I also let it be known to one environmentalist freind of mine that perhaps Dr. Frakenstein was misunderstood and rather than being the evil genius perhaps Frakenstein was just a lousy plastic surgeon. And while the canibalization of body parts was probably was considered very evil and Satanic during the 17th century today it is considered the Christian thing to do donate your body parts when you die so that some poor soul can receive his heart transplant. And interestingly the Oprah Winfrey show even featured a face transplant and if that is not the work of Dr.Frakenstein I do not know what is but Oprah thought that this poor woman who got her face blown off with a shot gun deserved a chance at a normal life.

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Yes, I totally agree with you. It's irony in the fact that PNE could offer a remedy to BP spill that anti-nuke enviros are so closed minded to the fact that 'reality is stranger than fiction'. But of course we're not surprised to issues like this, reference Climategate as an example. There's always been loony critics the difference is presently they are the political power now.

NUKE ROCKY44 wrote:


 

"...Havana calls in Venezuelan experts to combat potential environmental disaster as tarballs spotted off island's coast." [link]

LA-MISS-ALA-FLA affected by oil spill.

TEX & MEXICO not yet affected by oill spill.
[link]

More comments coming in from veteran physicists for nuke remedy to BP well spill. [link]

"...former long-time Russian Minister of nuclear energy and veteran Soviet physicist Viktor Mikhailov knows just how to fix BP's oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. "A nuclear explosion over the leak,"

"...Alexander Koldobsky, a fellow nuclear physicist from the Moscow Engineering and Physics Institute, insists the peaceful nuclear explosions were safe."

 


 



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Bruce Behrhorst


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Yes and the real climategate is that if it is true that runaway global warming will indeed cause this planet to become a Venus inferno then these environmentalists should welcome nuclear power at least as a last resort or a far lesser evil. However environmentalists love to quote the Chernobyl accident but even if it were true that all our nuclear power plants were of the Chernobyl design do they mean to tell me that the surface of the planet Venus is more hospitable to human life?

It is like a patient that has terminal colon cancer and some quack doctor recommends a diet of organic cabbage juice and oatmeal. A little late for that. While this treatment may be a good prevention the fact of the matter is that only nuclear medicine and surgery has any chance at saving the life of the patient. Yet these same alternative medicine practitioners would not even allow an x-ray let alone radiation treatments.

Yes and we have these same quack environmentalists recommending that we build millions of square miles of solar panels. Again this would be a great solution if we already had this infrustructure but to expect that this unprecedented massive infrustructure could be built in a time frame that could do any good is pure fantasy and even if solar energy is the way to go wouldn't it make a lot more sense to use an Orion atomic rocket so that we could launch millions of tons of solar panels in orbit as close to the Sun as possible rather than having the solar panel on Earth 90 million miles away from the Sun where the power is so feeble? Yet the environmentalists are so Earth bound in their thinking that they cannot even comprehend an idea so fantastic as the exploitation of outer space.

And as a final note I do not like these environmentalists saying that there are no funds to support my research that proposes using humanoid robotic technology to help the severely disabled. The fact of the matter is that the nuclear industry needs the most advanced robotic technology possible and there is nothing more advanced than humanoid robotic technology. On the cover of Dewars book was a picture of a robot.

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@androbot2084; Well... yes I agree. you make some fantastic points.
Wanted to ask you if you could put your points into an acticle piece, a short one if you want. I'd help with any typos and stuff. And I'd feature it on site and RSS.
It would really help our readers and others. You raise some serious issues people need to know about.


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Bruce Behrhorst


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Anyway I am writing a series of Essays called "Solaris and Her Atomic Rocket that Saved the Earth". The story is about an Orion rocket powered by nuclear explosions from atomic bombs and in the course of the mission all of the Earth's nuclear weapons are disposed of. The plot of the story follows the line that after a massive nuclear holocaust in Korea killing millions the World realizes that not only the doctrine of nuclear detterence fails us but our bomb disposal programs are ineffective as well as our diplomacy which does not exist. So the Worlds leaders approve the atomic Orion project and once atomic weapons are eliminated from the Earth the radical vegetarian environmentalists embrace nuclear power as the sacred power of the stars and incorporate nuclear star power as a part of their mystical new age ideology which considers all humans children of the atomic stars.

But the story is not over yet. In the spirit of mind blowing science fiction a nuclear astronaut has hallucinations in which he sees his environmentalist exgirlfreind who is by now an atomic star child from the future and warns him about the Korean holocaust and tells him to go to her alter ego self which exists in the parallel universe. But will his exgirlfriend environmentalist believe him when she is told that in the future she will be a queen in nuclear heaven?

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leelapix2.jpg

The story line sounds familiar with Turanga Leela of Futurama meets wikileaks.



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Bruce Behrhorst
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