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Post Info TOPIC: Off shore oil spill in Gulf of Mexico who pays


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Off shore oil spill in Gulf of Mexico who pays


After weeks of offshore oil rig explosion oil is still gushing from the sea floor. And no attempt to lower a scuttled ship over leak to plug leak on sea floor or collapsing sea bed by explosives. What happened doesn't the hydrocarbon industry have an NRC like the nuke industry? NRC cracks whip on nuke industry where was the whip for hydrocarbon industry?
http://www.mms.gov/offshore/RenewableEnergy/Definitions.htm

So now the gov't/industry finger pointing begins...

 



-- Edited by NUKE ROCKY44 on Wednesday 12th of May 2010 03:08:10 AM

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Bruce Behrhorst


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I've been following this one pretty closely--and I suspect that one of the issues here may be pressure. Not just pressure from being a mile below the surface of the ocean, but the actual wellhead pressure of the oil coming up.

BP said the accident was caused by a 'pressure surge' and I've been trying to get my brain around what could cause such a pressure surge. There are a couple of things that I realize:
1) Wellhead pressure is not a static head pressure, i.e., pressure in the oil bearing formation is dependent upon the flotation (yes, flotation) of cap stone above it. Pressure changes within the formation can cause faulting of the stone above it, and with faults come shifting: partial collapse of this cap stone can dynamically raise the pressure of the formation perhaps an order of magnitude higher. Instead of 10,000 psi, you might get momentary spikes to 100,000 psi or more. No blow out protector on the planet could protect against that.

2) The pressence of methane clathrates (methane hydrate crystals) near the wellhead in sediments just beneath the ocean floor. Oil is coming up from a deep geologic formation perhaps 10,000 feet or more below bottom of the ocean and so it is hot (mayhbe near the boil point of water.) Hot oil heats the well casing, which begins to heat the rock and sediments around the pipe casing. This in turn causes strong thermal decomposition of the methane hydrates nearby. If enough methane hydrates decompose explosively, it could literally lift the concrete casing around the wellhead shearing pipes and control cables: thus the BOP failed to operate. Furthermore, the huge blow of gas which when it reached the surface would have interfered with the rigs ability to float: a partial collapse of the rig could have pinched the well casing which could have easily caused uncontrollable pressure oscillations in the pipe stand.

3) Clumps of methane hydrates already in the pipe from the initial drill process could have been forcefully expelled up the pipe column until the reduction in pressure and increased temperatures from the oil below caused them to explosively decompose within the pipe: boom. Once the blow out happened on the surface with the subsequent ignition of the original methane plume, pretty much everything else falls into place.

It's just an educated guess, but I suspect that something along these lines has occured.

The really scary thing to me--and nobody anywhere on the net has talked about it is: what is the condition of the concrete seal at the bottom of the ocean around the wellhead? If that thing is damaged and oil can leak around the well casing, then you can get an 'oil volcano' at the bottom of the ocean that no force on the planet can stop. Also freely flowing oil tends to carry a lot of sand with it, which over time can literally saw its way through a steel casing. Even if the casing isn't leaking now, how long before it does become comprimised? An oil volcano will stop leaking oil when the formation is depleted. Can we say: billion barrel spill? Ten years' length? That's scary!

-- Edited by GoogleNaut on Wednesday 12th of May 2010 04:05:56 PM

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This oil volcano has happened before in gulf:

IXTOC I
Bahia de Campeche, Mexico        1979-Jun-03 
On June 3, 1979, the 2 mile deep exploratory well, IXTOC I, blew out in the Bahia de Campeche, 600 miles south of Texas in the Gulf of Mexico. The IXTOC I was being drilled by the SEDCO 135, a semi-submersible platform on lease to Petroleos Mexicanos (PEMEX).
  http://www.incidentnews.gov/incident/6250


In the next nine months, experts and divers (including Red Adair) were brought in to contain and cap the oil well. Approximately an average of ten thousand to thirty thousand barrels per day were discharged into the Gulf until it was finally capped on 23 March 1980.[6] Prevailing currents carried the oil towards the Texas coastline. The US government had two months to prepare booms to protect major inlets. Eventually, in the US, 162 miles (261 km) of beaches and 1421 birds were affected by 3,000,000 barrels (480,000 m3) of oil. Mexico rejected US requests to be compensated for cleanup costs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I

BP GULF of MEX Blowout is at least 4-5 times more difficult than IXTOC I due to depth.
I just don't see U.S. gov't waiting around for 9 months (historical best case) scenario. I say drop a scuttled ship seal some hatches, cut out bottom to fit entire area of leaks & mini sub port entry drop hoses to valves attached to oil filled compartments and suck out oil. This while you drill pressure relief wells bring in mini sub inside ship to cap BOP. If this oil volcano goes on more than 10 months shut down all rigs in area cap wells and blast the oil volcano area with demolition charges to collapse the sea floor to stop leak. I doubt they would blast 'cause oil companies would lose more money.

Try measures above to quickly mitigate the catastophic mess in the Gulf.
Can you imagine all the states affected by this mess? It boggles the mind! And I'm from Florida. Florida without beaches ! OMG. No wonder most Floridians oppose offshore drilling 'cause ever since I was a kid they complained bitterly about tar balls on beaches when ships flushed bilges causing beach tar and offshore rigs would trigger more beach pollution. 

I know we need cars and fuel but somehow society has to move a bit more quickly to coordinate better energy mix and sane energy policy with nukes playing a larger role in the energy mix.


 

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Bruce Behrhorst


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Looks like the oil volcano is still not capped.

I would say they need now to cable a demolition charge (cable tipped explosive) and feed it down well case. Use submersibles to guide cable down pipe use enough explosive to collapse sea bed in immediate area only. All other surrounding well rigs should be shut down all personal removed well pipes capped in preparation for blast. 

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Bruce Behrhorst


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I don't think  that is going to help. Using explodives you only run the risk of shattering the rock strata and the concrete plug even more. I don't think it has become the 'oil volcano' yet, though. I have read uncomfirmed reports of secondary leakages seeping from spots nearby, but I don't know anything for sure.

I am working on an idea--and am considering doing a write up and sending it to BP--of using liquid nitrogen to attempt to chill the warm oil in the pipe in an effort to create a long, thick tar plug in place. If you can atleast slow the flow, it's better than nothing. It can buy time until the bypass wells are completed.

I need data on temperature of the oil coming out of the well head, the static well head pressure before the explosion, and kinetic wellhead pressure if possible, and the viscosity, thermal conductivity and heat capacity of the oil. I also need the diameter of the pipe (I'm using 8" for the riser in my calculations.) And the average flow speed of the oil. This is all proprietary data which I can only WAG at.




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I stand corrected. BP's own live video feed as of 4:25 am PST shows the yawning pit of a totally uncontrolled gusher.

Damn!

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/homepage/STAGING/local_assets/bp_homepage/html/rov_stream.html

I wish I could have done a frame grab.

Ty

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I can't agree with you on liquid nitrogen. The warm sea H2O will heat nitrogen (boil sea water) just making the sea water around pipe boil off. Unless you use special pipe to prevent split or rubber compound type or special insulated pipe. I just don't think they have this special equipment.
I think time is running out for BP.
I'm in favor or gov't ordering BP and industry to assist in blasting well. Politically this is a disaster for both. They should also dredge for sand barrier to stop under sea water.

The sooner gusher and leaks are stopped and sand barrier built the better but reality is it will be years before area nature goes back to normal if ever.  

I say collapse the rock strata and collapse the area with sea water pressure it should not be a big problem. It will stop and cap the gusher.

BP has lock on windows media unless you frame grab with plug-in or print screen (does not work) can just take a camara and take pic of computer screen.



-- Edited by NUKE ROCKY44 on Tuesday 25th of May 2010 03:49:04 PM

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Bruce Behrhorst


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Use closed circuit nitrogen lines--one set of insulated lines to bring down liquid nitrogen, the other set are larger diameter vent lines. Use a relatively small pressure drop between the two systems to control rate of liquid nitrogen consumption. Bring the vent lines all the way to the surface and vent the nitrogen there. Do not vent underwater.

Nitrogen lines must withstand 2300 psi hydrostatic pressure at depth, and allow for a 400 psi pressure difference between liquid and vent systems. Pumps liquid nitrogen at high rate down LN2 Riser and use one or more larger diameter Vent Risers to control boiloff at depth. If enough cooling is created, it should be able to create a plug of tar in the line.


However, I've found out some other very interesting data regarding this particular well.

The formation is at a depth of 13,000 feet below the ocean bottom, which is itself just under 5000 feet from the surface. This oil is an unusual mix of oil and natural gas--the petroleum industry uses a ratio called GOR (Gas/oil ratio) which for this well is 3000 (by volume.) By weight this works out to be about a 40%/60% by weight gas and oil mixture. The formation temperture is 180 degrees Fehrinheit, which is unusually low. The formation pressure is just about 12,000 psi. Any cap that is sealed in place must withstand this hydrostatic pressure once equilibrium is reestablished.

The gas and oil mixture is probably a supercritical fluid as methane is a terrific solvent for oil at 12,000 psi. The average specific density of this fluid in the drill pipe is on order of 0.62 g/ml.

Also, the formation may be water driven, which means that water is displacing the formations oil/gas mix from below--which means we've got a long wait before the formation depressurizes.

The expansion of the oil/gas mixture in the 13,000 foot rise up the drill stem is probably adiabatic, which means the mixture cools at it rises. No telling what the tempurature is when it exist the drill pipe on the sea floor, but BP reports that the oil is rising with a warm water plume that originates at depth: this indicates to me that the oil is still quite warm when it exits the drill stem.

I am learning a lot about this, and it is extremely interesting: we've got a hell of a problem on our hands...

http://adropofrain.net/2010/05/analysis-of-oilgas-behavior-pre-and-post-deepwater-horizon-blowout-bop/

This guy 'roger_rethinker' at theoildrum.com seems to know a lot about the oil indrusty--I am trying to get in touch with him.



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Just wondering, adding nitrogen to hot oil could it form N20?, isn't N2O oxidizer explosive under certain conditions. Methane is violently reactive with oxidizers.


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Bruce Behrhorst


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They should of cable explosive BLASTED to plug well weeks ago and dredged sand barriers around nature preserves by now. The biggest oil spill in US history was mismanaged now only relief drill will bleed pressure from gusher well in the meantime the mess will only get larger.

Shame on industry and gov't. 

This accident happened before in gulf with no change in accident prevention and disaster planing.

Big Media still criticizes regulated nuclear alternative.

Whata crazy energy policy! 



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Bruce Behrhorst
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