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Post Info TOPIC: Hydrogen Economy Or Electricity Economy?
10kBq jaro

Date:
Hydrogen Economy Or Electricity Economy?



Opinion: Hydrogen Economy Or Electricity Economy?


NucNet


Source: David Barber


Editor: John Shepherd


2005 May 19


The nuclear energy industry should not overlook its primary mission of generating carbon-free electricity cheaply in an attempt to embrace a hydrogen-led future, writes Professor David Barber, who holds degrees in physics, radioecology and chemical engineering, and is a member of the Fuel Cycle Division at the US Idaho National Laboratory. Mr Barber can be contacted directly by e-mail at dbinid@msn.com.


There are two conclusions of relevance to the US nuclear energy community. First, hydrogen has a critical inefficiency problem that is rooted in thermodynamics. This is essentially unsolvable and renders hydrogen impractical as either an energy carrier or an energy storage tool. Second, economics, technical practicality and the urgency of strengthened national security through energy independence, all mean electricity is the overwhelming favourite as the energy carrier that will be carrying stationary-source energy to the transportation sector in the 21st century.


Long before hydrogen becomes feasible, the less-expensive energy carrier – electricity – will have already captured much of the US transportation market. Therefore, the US nuclear energy community would be well advised to sidestep hydrogen and focus, over the next several critical decades of nuclear renewal, on its fundamental issues: passive safety, proliferation resistance and closing the fuel cycle. This would ensure that nuclear energy continues to be available, viable and sustainable as the lowest-cost provider of grid-distributed electricity.


It should be noted that the hydrogen industry accounts for a relatively trivial sliver of the overall national US energy budget. Capturing the present hydrogen market is certainly not the big hydrogen opportunity that would justify the investment to develop dedicated nuclear heat-based hydrogen production plants. As long as transportation continues to be based on petroleum, there is no big hydrogen opportunity worthy of a dedicated plant level of focus.


Nearly all hydrogen in use today is itself being "produced" by stripping hydrogen from natural gas through steam reformation of methane. There is no technical advantage to reforming methane in preference to electrolysis of water; there is only a price advantage of about a factor of two. Today, natural gas is trading with a floor price of about five US dollars (USD) per MBtu. That price will need to rise permanently above USD 9 per MBtu before methane reformation will quantitatively yield the hydrogen supply market to electrolysis using electricity costing four US cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) (all figures based on 2004 valuations).


The truth about whether hydrogen best serves national security and energy independence goals depends upon how its burden of application weighs on the national economy in comparison to other options. A hydrogen vehicle using hydrogen derived from coal-fired electricity is actually several times more polluting than a gasoline-powered vehicle. Surprisingly, many conversations with attendees at the 2004 meeting of the National Hydrogen Association and much of the present literature reveal that many hydrogen enthusiasts don’t make the distinction between energy carriers versus energy source.


Basic conversion and handling losses waste most of the energy. The result is that for every four power plants making electricity, only one plant’s electrical output actually ends up being productively used. Three power plants’ output is lost simply because hydrogen is part of the process. That level of waste is unacceptable in any situation, particularly at a time of global energy-related challenges.


Long before petroleum is depleted and future generations are considering a replacement "fuel", electricity will have already captured a vast portion of the transportation market through a very simple and predictable maturation of today’s hybrid technology. Why will this happen? Because electricity is cheaper.


If you think people might resist a change from quick fuelling at the petrol station to overnight charging, think again. A 2001 study by the US Electric Power Research Institute found that most people surveyed preferred plugging in a vehicle to filling up at a petrol station. Overnight charging perfectly fits our present grid functioning, which tends to be electricity rich during night-time off-peak hours.


After being attacked at every turn through our history, the US nuclear energy community might have trouble believing that something may actually go well for us. Nevertheless, we are perfectly poised for the only legitimate opportunity to extend stationary-source energy to the transportation sector this century. Rather than speculation on a revolution in transportation based on a thermodynamically inefficient fuel and an altogether new infrastructure, perhaps we should notice that the transportation evolution – based on a familiar energy carrier and existing technology – has already begun.


The strength of the relationship between the hydrogen economy and renewables cannot be overstated. The wind doesn’t always blow and sunlight isn’t always striking every solar panel. Renewable energy desperately needs a very big battery, a load leveller. Without some form of energy storage, renewables are physically limited to less than a 20% share of the grid. At 20%, renewables are more of a headache than a resource for a grid manager.


The hydrogen economy is not really about energy security or clean air. The hydrogen economy is a backdoor attempt to integrate renewable energy’s desperately needed load leveller into general commerce.


My advice to fellow greens in the renewable energy community is as follows: recognise that the 25% loop efficiency problem with hydrogen is essentially unsolvable because it is rooted in thermodynamics – hydrogen is a lousy load-leveller. Instead, work to minimise the weather-dependent grid limitation problem of renewables by focusing on improvement of the North American grid infrastructure and encouraging utilisation of more efficient electricity storage tools.


However, reducing greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in transportation with hydrogen or methanol would be much more expensive per unit of GHG reduction. Consumers would need convincing to pay for all of the additional plants and all that new infrastructure, in addition to buying the much more expensive, fuel cell-based vehicles – all for the pleasure of using a fuel that is several times more expensive than electricity.


There are two messages here for the US nuclear energy community. First, for GHG emission reduction, coal-fired plants are the low-hanging fruit. Coal’s own estimates are two to three additional cents per kWh to separate carbon dioxide and inject it into subsurface geologic formations. Coal simply doesn’t have that price margin relative to nuclear – regardless of the fact that utilities are planning more than 100 gigawatts of electricity generating capacity from new coal plants.


When coal’s long-enjoyed externalities finally come home to roost, the coal industry will not be able to hide the facts that coal is both the dirtiest and the most easily replaced form of fuel. That’s 50% of the US grid up for replacement. That most certainly is not a trivial sliver of the overall national energy budget.


The second message is that the most economical and probably only economically viable way to reduce GHG emissions (and oil imports) in transportation is to support and encourage the hybrid evolution by providing clean, economical electricity.


Electricity is mankind’s cleanest, most-efficient energy carrier. Nuclear energy is mankind’s only non-greenhouse gas emitting energy source that is available around the clock, regardless of the weather.


There is no conceivable future energy scenario in which nuclear energy will be more heavily used than to make electricity for the grid.


There are significant challenges to a hydrogen energy carrying scheme. These include materials development, tremendous cost barriers, infrastructure inadequacies and the very low conversion efficiency. While many of hydrogen’s problems could be reduced with enough time and effort, the fact remains that the 25% efficiency problem of the electricity to hydrogen to electricity loop is unsolvable. Societies worldwide will be struggling this century and beyond just to afford to replace their existing GHG-belching stationary sources with clean, non-GHG sources like nuclear, wind, low-heat hydro and solar. There certainly will not be an overabundance of clean energy to squander on an inefficient hydrogen loop, particularly when the same tasks can be accomplished directly with the original electricity. Not this century, anyway.


Not even nuclear energy can turn hydrogen into a winner. To be sure, direct heat nuclear can easily beat that – our hydrogen would be only twice as expensive as our electricity. Nuclear easily wins the hydrogen game. However, that victory in making hydrogen is moot. The hydrogen car costs much more than the PHEV (pneumatic hybrid electric vehicle). The new hydrogen distribution infrastructure costs much more than the grid. The cheapest hydrogen still costs more than electricity and always will. Nuclear can easily win the hydrogen game, but hydrogen itself is a loser.


Most of the needed grid growth and coal replacement will go to nuclear if critical mistakes – like seeing our reactors closed because there is no path for large volumes of low-power density, once-through spent fuel – are avoided.


Nuclear growth is inevitable. The US nuclear energy community should ignore the hydrogen red herring and concentrate on our fundamental issues, particularly reversing the mistake of the 1970s by redeveloping core skills in waste volume and proliferation risk minimisation through closing the fuel cycle. This would ensure that nuclear energy continues to be available, viable and sustainable as the lowest-cost provider of electricity.


Electricity will always be nuclear energy’s primary national mission.





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Brucie B.

Date:


I disagree with electocentric production only... Both hydrogen and electric should be used. Here's the scoop...it's an old/new way of producing energy.Back in the day... city gas in most European and American cities was primarily HYDROGENuntil WWll. The first combustion engine built in Lucca by Meucci and Barsanti ran on Hydrogen, and experiments had been done in the 1950s on Hydrogen airpalnes. And there's the production of food for astronauts using microorganisms capable of processing hydrogen. 


Why has Man in the last couple of centuries passed from wood to coal and then to oil and gas, 'cause the forests were overexploited, but the real reason is economies of scale (level of consumption) and the spatial density of consumption.


 
THE IMMEDIATE SOLUTION : Synergistic production of H2 by fossil fuels and nuclear energy.
using nuclear heat to help fossil fuels produce hydrogen could improve the efficiency of converting
fossil fuels to hydrogen, thus attaining fuel saving and CO2 reduction.
-The 'SMR Process' Steam-Methane (natural gas) Reforming via High temp. or medium temp. process.
(plenty of work as been done in Japan on this process)
-HIGH TEMPERATURE ELECTROLYTIC WATER SPLITTING; This yields better performance than the
conventional water electrolysis processes due to decrease electrode overpotentials and increase oxygen ion diffusivity.
This is the leading candidate to produce tons of  H2 high-temperature electrolysis of stream (HTES)
using a 600 MWth gas-cooled 'gen 4' nuke reactor. HTES uses a combination of thermal energy and electricity to split water in a device very similar to a solid oxide fuel cell (SOFCs). So in effect you produce a carrier energy source, hydrogen to power ships, hybrid autos, trains, airplanes and rockets while at the same time generating electricity for market  in city, urban and rural and reducing sulfur dioxides (greenhouse gases).
 
"If you think people might resist a change from quick fuelling at the petrol station to overnight charging, think again. A 2001 study by the US Electric Power Research Institute found that most people surveyed preferred plugging in a vehicle to filling up at a petrol station. Overnight charging perfectly fits our present grid functioning, which tends to be electricity rich during night-time off-peak hours."
 
This sounds like a paid advert for electrical energy only use...Do you really think people are going to adjust their day around a car that's gonna need overnight charging every night ?
-THERMOCHEMICAL PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN; the iodine-sulfur process by far the cheap way! best suited to
coupling with a high temp. reactor. Right now the U.S. can couple LWR (light water reactors) to do these processes the safety issue of predatory hydrogen in the reactor vessels that have caused accidents in the old days has been addressed already. The issue of a hydrogen economy via nuclear fission must be addressed .
 
-Proliferation resistance for the whole nuke fuel cycle (goal is to close the nuke fuel cycle).
-enhanced efficiency in exploting nuclear ores.
-minimize radiotoxicity contained in the long-term nuclear wastes.
-very high safety standards, ruling out any nuclear accidents that are not confined within containment.
Both the energy densities of Hydrogen as a carrier fuel and fission fuel can't be compared with oil, gas and coal
hydrocarbon stuff; hydrogen/nuclear will always win in this regard and  long term issues of hydrogen degredation in storage by the use of smart cryostorage has been addressed . The problem is again politica in government.
As soon as you get the deadwood politicos from Washington D.C. that resist advancement in this area maybe
we can no longer be addicted to corruption and middle east oil interests and the type of politics that's not clouded
with tainted oil interests.


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10kBq jaro

Date:

The iodine-sulfur process may be "by far the cheapest way" on paper, in terms of energy input requirements, but the chamicals used, combined with the high process temperature, make for an extremely corrosive industrial environment. The plant will cost you a fortune, and may not last more than a few years.....


Personally, I prefer the cycle involving boron combustion and electrolysis. Much safer. Check out the write-up at http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html


 



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GoogleNaut

Date:

Conventional electrolysis of water can be enhanced by increasing the temperature of the process. By adding heat, the efficiency of the electrolytic conversion is boosted. While, I'm not entirely sure that an 'electrically catalyzed' superheated-steam conversion could be done--kind of a nuclear reactor driven fuel-cell "in reverse"--I think that efficiency can be boosted quite a bit.

One thing that bothers me about discussions involving replacements for petroleum as a motor fuel is the distressing fact that just about any replacement will be more expensive! The fact that petroleum, because of its relative low cost, has become an economic 'reagent' (catalysts aren't technically consumed!) The effect on Western economies--especially the United States--of relatively cheap oil means the energy intensive tasks are easier to accomplish. Energy intensive typically relates to high-value. This is one of the reasons for the economic growth and power of many Western Nations.

But there's a price.

Near total dependence upon oil for energy.

So not only do we need to replace petroleum as an energy source (with perhaps an expanded nuclear power program) we need to find a way to preserve our economic infrastructure. This can only be preserved by preserving the bulk of the transportation infrastructure--either transforming it into something compatible with the new energy source when it comes on line, or by transforming society by reducing our numbers and taking up a more agrarian centered society, where long range travel will be extremely difficult (as it was in centuries past.)

Well, the only way I can think of for preserving society pretty much the way we are now with minimal disruptions (and there's the key!) then we must find someway of preserving the convenience of cheap transportation. I don't think that mass electrified rail will do it (ultimately powered by nuclear plants.) My electrified-highway idea is too infrastructure heavy to be practical. So I think that synthetic fuel synthesis will be needed to provide energy in a form available to transportation: something with fairly high energy density, ease of use by laypersons, and more or less conventional automotive technologies (available now or soon.) The problem with this idea, though, is that if the cost of the synthetic fuel is a function of the energy needed to produce it, then of course petroleum will always win. But a simple recognition that energy is necessary for economic life, and cheap energy is a catalyst for economic growth, suggests that transportation energy demands (especially synthetic transportation fuels) be subsidized somewhat. This flies in the face of 'free market thinking,' but the benefits ought to outweigh the costs.

Some of have hypothesized that hydrogen will be this 'synthetic fuel' for transportation. Hydrogen has many advantages: it is easily produced from water given electricity. It is clean burning; it can be used as a turbine fuel and as a fuel for fuel cells. Disadvantages include: low energy density; cryogenic storage and handling equipment is technically challenging (not for the layperson--Joe Average Citizen!) Extremely flammable and low molecular weight virtually ensure that even small leaks are a major hazard. Conventional oderants (such as those used for propane and natural gas) don't work with hydrogen because of its low molecular weight and presumed cryogenic storage method. This makes leak detection without special intruments impossible. Hydrogen fires (in air) are virtually invisible--again, special infrared and ultraviolet imaging equipment is needed to detect a 'hydrogen fire.' Hydrogen will have a high boil off fraction meaning that constant reliquification plants (also energy intensive) are needed to reduce losses.

While boron has been proposed as a transportation fuel--I don't believe anyone has demonstrated an 'engine' which can burn it. Boron oxide is a glass which melts at surprisingly low temperatures. Storing oxide bricks onboard is technically feasible, however for long trips with a large freight truck this seems impractical. Boron-Oxide is readily reduced back to boron--the reactions are readily available and easily adaptable to the utilize process heat from a nuclear reactor as a prime mover power source. Boron is fairly abundant in the crust of the earth--so supply really shouldn't be that big of a problem. Obviously boron oxide cannot contribute to global warming because, as stated before, it's a glass (unless of course you decide to roof your planet in panels made from your vehicle's glass exhaust!) Boron may be the wave of the future. I'm just not sure how an 'engine' could be made to work with it. Suggestions of helium gas turbines with swirl seperators and the like to seperate out the boron oxide beads as they form. But the point is, boron is really tough stuff to burn. Pure oxygen get's its attention--so does this mean you have to carry your oxygen too? And what about boron nitride formation? BN is the toughest ceramic on the face of the earth! Little granules or beans of this greenish ceramic is bad news for any turbine---imagine snadblasting your car with silicon carbide grit. Boron nitride is even harder than SiC! It's alsomst as hard as diamond! So BN is a real problem for any airbreathing engine utilizing boron as a fuel.

My bet is synthetic ethanol. It can be produced from almost any organic or agricultural waste. Given chemical finess, it can be produced from any source of carbon given sufficient energy. What about global warming? It seems to me that carbon could be 'harvested' either by extracting it from agricultural/municipal wastes, or it could be 'mined from the ocean' by using a form of electrolysis to precipitate calcium carbonate directly onto immersed metallic meshes.

Transportation is an energy intensive process. The creation of synthetic fuels is also an energy intensive process (regardless of the synthetic fuel.) Because of losses and inefficiencies, the total energy needed to create the synthetic fuel will be quite high. Unavoidable. To keep costs reasonable seems to require some kind of subsidization system--otherwise the disproportionate effects of the high cost of transportation will kill all of the benefits of replacing petroleum. The eventual economic impact of very high transportation costs will result in a significant destruction of the global economy.
So whatever 'fuel' is chosen, it must be weighed by more than simply its price as a function of energy used to make it. No--it must reflect the true importance and value to the economy as a whole. And this is a very difficult thing to pin down!


__________________
Brucie B.

Date:

Study Says Ethanol Not Worth the Energy:


article in media 


Grand changes in energy infrastructure is a gov't responsibility; private industry can certainly complement on government subsidies that provide the medium for that change. That's the way it's always been done in the past. I think even in today's wacky culture it's still a model of success...just look around and count the activities one does throughout the day and you'll find some kind of government involvement in it's mass production and use in society.


I would vote for nuke and hydrogen energy with solar and geothermal for specific geographic advantages over hydrocarbon energy any day of the week !  



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