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Post Info TOPIC: more non-nuclear testing???


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more non-nuclear testing???


The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Glenn Research Center (GRC) at Lewis Field is planning the development of a Technology Demonstration Unit (TDU) for Fission Surface Power (FSP). The goal of the TDU is to assemble the major components (heat source, power conversion, heat rejection, power management and distribution) of a FSP system with a simulated nuclear heat source and conduct integrated system testing in thermal-vacuum to evaluate overall performance. FSP systems provide a potential option to support future human exploration missions on the Moon and Mars.[link]


Don't understand the logic here. Wasn't the SAFE series testing of reactor core non-nuclear heat source a function of materials makeup done years ago? 

Have video of tests.

At some point there has to be some actual nuclear fuels testing on any system-what is the delay?

Have I missed some logic?

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Bruce Behrhorst


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I think its just cautious testing to see whether the heat will go the way it should, before they place in the transmutatin' fuel.

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I can see your point but the issue of cooling a reactor operating on the surface of Moon or Mars isn't and insurmountable task. Depending on the typical surface temperature of the lunar site in direct sol light or in-shade there is a difference in lunar surface ambient temperature were the reactor chosen to operate short of the reactor positioned to take advantage of shade. Gases CO2, helium, able to remove heat even a water based dielectric diamagnetic spray cooling system for reduced gravity could work. I haven't yet read conclusive proof the lunar surface is devoid of some sort of water it might take some processing in order to use as coolant but in the future once reactor operations have gained some data in-situ water can come in handy.       



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Bruce Behrhorst


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Actually the lunar surface is lightly sprinkled with water in the form of hydrogen doping of lunar regolith from the solar wind. The He3 mining folks look to bake the volitiles out of the lunar regolith using solar ovens--the volatiles include hydrogen, helium, some carbon, nitrogen at the tens to hundreds of parts per million level. So it would take mining and processing few million tons of lunar regolith to extract enough hydrogen to fill a swimming pool with water.

The beauty is if you're gonna mine anyway--why not extract the volatiles first? I think this makes good sense...

As far as the reactor goes, how are they performing the 'nonnuclear' test? If they insert electric heat elements in place nuclear fuel rods in an engineering mockup, this will only give them an idea of the rate of diffusion of heat through conventional thermal conductivity of the core--but won't give them any data about non-thermal cunductivity heat diffusion, i.e., heat from diffusion of fast neutrons, gamma-rays, and decay products. Those are additional--and very important factors--in nuclear reactor heat balance and design. All of these things have to be accounted for, and this is only one of the --many-- reasons why nuclear core design is so bloody difficult. One needs a comprehensive design tool to simulate all aspects of an operating: I think the industry calls it a thermohydraulic model. Of course, eventually they're just going to have to build one and plop it on the moon. And that will be the first real engineering test!


-- Edited by GoogleNaut at 13:54, 2007-11-20

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One needs a comprehensive design tool to simulate all aspects of an operating: I think the industry calls it a thermohydraulic model. Of course, eventually they're just going to have to build one and plop it on the moon.
I couldn't of said it any better Googlenaut. My feeling is these are 'ear marked' funds toward the NASA explorations program. Not enough funds for a serious space nuke development. Yes, computers can model thermal data on the core but couldn't real fuel test to scale be used to gather actual data-just to be safe?    


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Bruce Behrhorst


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Yep, that would be a full up engineering test. And then once they had gained enough information of operating modes, it is traditional to go to destructive testing to find the failure modes. Of course with nuclear reactors this is a very messy and expensive affair--cause your test facility is usually destroyed in the process. So, logically, it seems to me that it woulds be best to develop solid designs for a limited class of reactors--debug them--and then more or less freeze the mechanical designs. Then produce them like crazy...

As engineering and operating experience grows, the basic designs may be slightly modified so that later generations will have fewer bugs and increased reliability--but this is the standard, logical evolution process of any mature technology.

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Why must the testing facility be destroyed after use? It makes no sense.

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i.e. the term: "...destructive testing..."

An engine would only be tested to destruction when just about every bit of data was squeezed out of it. In fact, this was actually done in the late 1960's when Project: NERVA was being cancelled. With the pending loss of of their nuclear engine and test equipment, the engineers opted to test a Kiwi-A to destruction to find the conditions under which it would fail. The results were spectacular:

See this link for a full description and awesome pictures:

http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2002-000145.html


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